Philosophical question

[chargirlgenius]

Let's say that I want to make a garment that was originally made out of narrower fabric. That narrower fabric was pieced together because it was too narrow for the application. However, modern widths of fabric would be plenty to do the item without any additional piecing.

So, which is more a more faithful reproduction/reconstruction? Cutting the modern width of fabric into the narrower pieces, and piecing them together, or using the selvage like the original maker would have?

Granted, I'd end up cutting the selvage off anyway, since it's a modern selvage, but pretend for the sake of discussion that it's not an issue.

Comments

[melaniesuzanne.livejournal.com]

I think we're missing a sentence or two after "However,".

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

Oops! Let's see if I can think of what I meant. I think I just wrote the second paragraph instead. :-)

[lisette-1528.livejournal.com]

From historically accurate, FAITHFUL reproduction/reconstruction, I'd say go with the narrower width and piece away.

But only if that is your goal and intention.

If you simply want to make the garment for the lines and look, I'd go with the wider width.

Just my two pence.

[lady-guenievre.livejournal.com]

If I'm understanding what you're saying right, I'd vote (were I trying to do a perfectly faithful reproduction of the garment/item *the first time*) for narrower pieces, unless I was sure that the extra seams weren't going to change the fit/function in any way.

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

That's the thing, do you know until you try it? :-)

[lady-guenievre.livejournal.com]

That was why I said the first time.

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

Oh! Sorry. I'd'misread something in there.

[koshka-the-cat.livejournal.com]

I tend to go with the wider width and using the technique that they did. They would've thought it was silly to cut fabric in half to create more work.

However, if it's something narrower that you could see the seams on--not a full skirt--I might go for the narrower seams.

Both are compromises. One, you compromise technique. The other, you compromise the finish. It just matters which compromise seems less of a compromise for the particular project!

Either way, it's annoying and part of the reason I was really excited to make my 1780s chemise dress out of 36" wide cotton :)

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

I guess I need to just start weaving my fabric, and trying it that way. :-)

[alyclepal.livejournal.com]

you know I have looms...

My big, big one might be coming up for an extended loan this spring if all goes to plan. 4 shafts and up to 45 inch weaving width:>

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

Believe it or not, I actually *have* a decent four shaft loom. I just have no time to actually warp it up or use it. Someday, I'll actually make my own fabric for a dress, so I can try stuff out on hand woven fabrics.

[alyclepal.livejournal.com]

That's awesome:>. My intention is to do the same for making a caftan some day. Currently there are two 4 shaft looms in the house and that's at least one too many.

[aeddie.livejournal.com]

Is it known that the garment was made with narrower cloth? I've seen records from both Italian (ok fine Italian Penninsular City-States) and English records with fairly modern fabric widths.

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

Yes, this wasn't made with broadcloth. The selvages are intact.

[aeddie.livejournal.com]

Ah. You could always sew it full width and then sew a pinch seam where the original is pieced. :D

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

That is a possibility.

Here's another thing to think about. If I sew it not using the selvages, I should probably also finish the seams, which is anothe new element.

[aeddie.livejournal.com]

True but who is going to see it. If it is lined you could probably get away with cutting the pieces using pinking shears depending on the fabric.

[northernotter.livejournal.com]

While the Herjolfsnes tunics are probably not what you're thinking about, there are several cases of 'false seams' put in to emulate narrower pieces of fabric, for example on gores.

As for selvages, there is a qualitative difference between selvages on handwoven and modern bolts. While I don't have a lot of experience with dressmaking yet, my instincts agree with your approach of somehow finishing the seams, but how depends on the quality of the fabric.

Best of luck!

[quodscripsi.livejournal.com]

Are you replicating the garment using the same dimensions or are you making a new garment in the style. If the first then the width matter if the later only shapes and weave and what not matter because doing it porportional isn't accurate.

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

I haven't completely decided, but I *think* I'm going to use all of the original measurements that I know. Good point.

[stringmonkey.livejournal.com]

I have the same problem doing Japanese. Not only are period fabrics wider than modern ones, my silhouette is hardly typical of 16th C. Japan. I compromise by estimating the ratio of fabric width-to-body width in period clothing, and sizing the widths up accordingly to fit my sedentary 21st C. American backside.

[alphasarah.livejournal.com]

As many others have said, I think it depends on what you hope to achieve in the construction of the garment.

You mention having to finish seams that weren't finished in the original - how will this affect the drape of the garment? How are the seams that result from using a narrower-width fabric affecting the drape of the fabric?

Obviously it's a balancing act... and it all comes back to that first question; what's the goal?

My personal opinion

[lisettelaroux.livejournal.com]

You cut the narrower pieces....and piece them together. Part of the whole look is the seam....

[ichseke.livejournal.com]

The number of surviving garments is tiny and the locations they're found are fewer still. I don't think we can assume that the constructions we can see are the only possible solutions, or even the most typical. My inclination would be to go for the most thrifty approach -- "thrifty" including both use of the available fabric and use of time. We can discuss in front of an example when you see Johnny P's gown this weekend :-P

[martelvonc.livejournal.com]

It depends,
was only this narrow width fabric EVER woven in the time period.

Did only this particular historical garment happen to be made out of narrow fabric?

What do other extant examples show for construction?

[etaine-pommier.livejournal.com]

First, I love that you ask these questions :-) And I agree with what so many others have said: it depends on the goal.

I like to cut to period widths and then try to use the least fabric, partly because I have found that the garments fall differently. Hang along a seam, even a piecing seam, is different than in the fabric itself. (Ditto for hang along selvedge edges.) Another issue with reproducing piecing seams is whether the fabric is in re-use, i.e. if the garment you are looking at was cut down or re-made from another garment, or from original material.

If you are
- fitting the garment to someone of a different size than the original,
- you can tell which seams are structural and which are for piecing the fabric, and
- the fabric used was new, then
My inclination would be to cut to an appropriate width, reproduce the construction seams, and piece to use the least fabric possible. This might result in piecing seams where there weren't others before, but it seems to me to be good compromise between reproducing the materials, mindset, and techniques.

[baronesspixie.livejournal.com]

As I've gone deeper and deeper into literally recreating historic garments, I've found that the seams affect the drape and fit more than one tends to think they did. I'd opt for narrower, as the addition or subtraction of seams will make a difference in the way your skirt hangs, and the way it moves - and visually, that's huge.